Dan - Come Shine Your Light

[lonestar]

So who's this, now (since he-she-it isn't a food cart)?

i post under one name and one name only == ALWAYS

[Observateur]

So who's this, now (since he-she-it isn't a food cart)?

i post under one name and one name only == ALWAYS

So do I. That wasn't what I asked.

[daniele831]

Lonestar's #1 fan has been noticeably absent from this conversation. I think we all know exactly who "foodcart" is.

[lonestar]

Lonestar's #1 fan has been noticeably absent from this conversation. I think we all know exactly who "foodcart" is.

doubtful

[lonestar]

So do I. That wasn't what I asked.

so.... what's the question?

[A_Malicous_Duck]

Considering the antics the other joints caused you when you guys first opened i'm a bit surprised at this current stance.

?

The hard feelings that you stole employees from other bars, people calling all the time about noise complaints when it was pretty obvious that it was your competition causing a ruckus, accusations that you were allowing under age drinking. Nearly all of it was apparently BS but it was obvious that the other more established places were playing some games of dirty hardball with you. So now we got a guy whose apparently getting the licenses he's supposed to have and following the rules that the city has put before him and what does he get? A whole boatload of shit from the very same gang of bullies who caused you shit back in the day and apparently you've joined in with them to gang up on the food cart.

So like I said I found it odd.

[lonestar]

The hard feelings that you stole employees from other bars, people calling all the time about noise complaints when it was pretty obvious that it was your competition causing a ruckus, accusations that you were allowing under age drinking. Nearly all of it was apparently BS but it was obvious that the other more established places were playing some games of dirty hardball with you. So now we got a guy whose apparently getting the licenses he's supposed to have and following the rules that the city has put before him and what does he get? A whole boatload of shit from the very same gang of bullies who caused you shit back in the day and apparently you've joined in with them to gang up on the food cart.

more confused then before. first two sentences I follow. Not sure who is/are playing games with us or trying to cause a ruckus, could be a competitor or could not be. but I am positive the "bullies" who caused us shit, ARE STILL TRYING, But the other store owners who enlisted our help in their crusade are not the same.

[A_Malicous_Duck]

If that's the case I maybe not remembering things correctly from when you first opened.

[bruklinboy]

Lonestar's #1 fan has been noticeably absent from this conversation. I think we all know exactly who "foodcart" is.

note to self
do not hire daniele831 as an investigator

[bklyngirl]

he 86th Street Business Improvement District will not remove two benches that were mysteriously bolted onto Fifth Avenue under the cover of darkness last month to displace a controversial gyro cart, claiming that it shouldn’t be responsible for cleaning up someone else’s mess.

“We’re not moving benches that we didn’t put in place,” said Patrick Condren, manager of the 86th Street Business Improvement District,

cool, who's up for a bench-bolting party all along 5th?

Strange though that the first bench installation wasn't caught on camera. There's no shortage of them...

My thoughts exactly a few weeks ago when this first happened.

[Observateur]

So do I. That wasn't what I asked.

so.... what's the question?

I posted

So who's this, now (since he-she-it isn't a food cart)?

Therefore, the question was, "So who's this, now (since he-she-it isn't a food cart)?"
Sheesh.

[foodcart]

Lonestar's #1 fan has been noticeably absent from this conversation. I think we all know exactly who "foodcart" is.

I joined this site because I have been reading for a few weeks .I took the name foodcart because I thought it would be funny. To answer your question. I am not Lone Stars #1 fan . With that out of the way I do notice that ever time somebody joins a few people here think its somebody else.

[A_Malicous_Duck]

It's legible, it's not beerman.

[daniele831]

Good point; you're probably right. But I'll join the bench installation party any time.

[Observateur]

Unfortunately, this has escalated:

Standoff! Brick-and-mortar merchants occupy food cart sites in Bay Ridge
BY DANIEL BUSH
The Brooklyn Paper
http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/35 ... 04_bk.html

The simmering cold war between Bay Ridge’s food vendors and Fifth Avenue’s brick-and-mortar businesses boiled over on Monday morning when merchants occupied two prime pieces of sidewalk used by popular neighborhood gyro sellers — sparking a heated standoff that could last well into the night.

Local merchants from a new group called Save Our Streets, led by Lone Star bar owner Tony Gentile, set up folding tables on both Fifth Avenue and 86th Street at 7 am — taking over the food vendors’ spots — and sold newspapers and cookbooks. They also handed out T-shirts and literature about how food carts destroy neighborhood businesses.

But the irate vendors have vowed to reclaim their turf — escalating war for control on the busy intersection — with one food cart operator promising to circle the block until merchants break down their table and go home.

“I’m going to wait and go back as soon as they leave,” said Sammy Kassen, manager of the Middle Eastern Halal cart, which was forced to move further down the avenue in March when a pair of benches were illegally placed on his usual spot — presumably by outraged merchants.

Yet Gentile says he and his Save Our Streets members will meet Kassen’s waiting game head on and plans to stay put until the vendors leave Bay Ridge.

“I’ll be out here every night as long as I need to be until they’re gone,” said Gentile. “I pay $9,000 a month in rent — these guys don’t pay anything.”

Islam Bauiomy, who lost his longtime spot on 86th Street, complained that the food carts are constantly under attack.

“We don’t bother anyone,” Bauiomy said. “I’m here to work. I have a family and we have to eat.”

Police said they won’t remove Gentile’s folding tables because they’re legal — and some residents agreed.

“They’re not paying rent,” resident Michael Kerrigonh said of the vendors. “The hard-working people here pay rent and contribute to the community.”

The standoff is only the latest skirmish in a long-simmering feud between the two sides.

Business owners have long complained that the food carts pollute the sidewalk and attract rowdy drunks. Kassen, who pays $200 for a two-year permit allowing him to sell on the street, cried foul, claiming he and his fellow vendors have done nothing wrong.

Things got messy a few weeks after the benches were mysteriously put in: Kassen was backing into his new spot a few feet from the benches when he hit Gentile with his cart, who was blocking his path. No charges were filed and Gentile was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.

Last month the manager of the 86th Street Business Improvement District refused to remove the rogue benches.

— with Will Bredderman

[lonestar]

Where is the public outcry over the fact that I have video of your favorite food vendor storing his meat in an unrefrigerated van, parked in the municipal parking lot all day, transporting said meats in a filthy cooler to his street cart, this board, this thread and all the haters on this board should make a day trip Nd buy from your local food vendor,go ahead eat the street meat

[Observateur]

If I owned a BR business and was in a heated neighborhood/legal wrangle I wouldn't do my informal personal venting on a neighborhood board, regardless.

[lonestar]

You act like I have something to hide Will, my meat is always refrigerated, my employees wash their hands after using the restroom, like the BOH mandates, I have hot running water, my licenses are current, I have nothing to hide, why should I listen to you, why don't u help your friend Sammy find a new spot, maybe up the block from where you live and you can suck up the fumes from is cart, or pay his sanitation costs for waste removal. Oh wait, he doesn't have to pay for garbage pick up, the city covers that cost because he leaves his garbage in the city trash cans on the corner WHEN he leaves.

[Observateur]

Are Bredderman/Bush regulars here?

[VirginiaDave]

Honestly though, doesn't the unrefrigerated meat, God knows where they defecate and us paying for their trash removal bother any of you even if you think Tony is being a bully? I'd like to know since brick and mortar places are brow beat by the city with the silly letter grades posted in the windows. If they leave a container open in their clean kitchen or are a few degrees off in food storage, they lose points but Sammy can store meat in a parking lot? Come on.

[Kitchop]

I'm really trying to understand both sides of this issue. I get that brick & mortar stores have expenses like high rents that street vendors don't have and I think street vendors must follow regulations, especially health codes. But hasn't street food long been a part of NYC, starting with hotdog, knish & pretzel carts and ice cream trucks and diversifying into all kinds of food carts and trucks? Are people who are against street food vendors against it throughout the whole city or just on the corner near their business?

Whenever I get involved in a discussion about this issue anywhere, about this particular food vendor or the issue in general, I always come back to the same conclusion: That, in general, street food vendors serve a whole different customer from the customer that is going to sit down and eat in a restaurant or bar. People eat street food for two reasons. They usually have very little time and/or money. I just don't see this as the same customer so it's hard to see food vendors siphoning off existing or would-be customers from local B&M places. It just seems like there is room for both to me. Like I said, I remember some kind of street food in NYC for as long as I can remember. It has expanded a lot though over several years of economic recession.

[lonestar]

The brick and mortar store owners want reform. Immediate and necessary full legislative reform, restructuring the law and all the grey area surrounding the current law. We are not trying to bully Sammy, we know we do not share customers but pizza wagon does and so does the Chinese buffet and the guy on 4th ave in a store selling g shwarma, who also enlisted our support. There are BID's in every borough in some sort of battle with food vendors, etc. We have communicated with one or two in our efforts as well.

[Observateur]

Honestly though, doesn't the unrefrigerated meat, God knows where they defecate and us paying for their trash removal bother any of you even if you think Tony is being a bully? I'd like to know since brick and mortar places are brow beat by the city with the silly letter grades posted in the windows. If they leave a container open in their clean kitchen or are a few degrees off in food storage, they lose points but Sammy can store meat in a parking lot? Come on.

If a place is consistently A-rated and-or has had no major violations, fine -- I cross fingers and assume it's reliable.

But, for example: Some places near the "Sammy corner" have shot up/down erratically month to month, bouncing around C/A/C and-or scoring 35-40+ points or barely clinging to B or having same recurring sanit or mouse/bug problems, right into the present. That kind of record means that I have no idea what's really up on a given day -- whether all's OK or whether last month's critters and other violations are back.

Taking-chances-wise, I don't see a difference between eating there and patronizing a cart. If the cart has good food, the cart wins (and, really, I'd do without if that area were cartless).

[Observateur]

We are not trying to bully Sammy

The physically obstructive, confrontational, extralegal, "nonlegislative" actions and the everything-but-kitchen-sink badmouthing sure as heck look like bullying.

[lonestar]

The squeaky wheel gets the oil,

there are real issues here not just the fact that you think the brick and mortars are bullies, give me a break already will, the bully thing is just distraction from the real issues, nothing more

[naked rev. trish]

But, for example: Some places near the "Sammy corner" have shot up/down erratically month to month, bouncing around C/A/C and-or scoring 35-40+ points or barely clinging to B or having same recurring sanit or mouse/bug problems, right into the present. That kind of record means that I have no idea what's really up on a given day -- whether all's OK or whether last month's critters and other violations are back.

Taking-chances-wise, I don't see a difference between eating there and patronizing a cart. If the cart has good food, the cart wins (and, really, I'd do without if that area were cartless).

So you equate the cart to a C grade restaurant and will eat there? Yuk. Walk a block and go somewhere else and do your digestive system a favor.

[VirginiaDave]

Honestly though, doesn't the unrefrigerated meat, God knows where they defecate and us paying for their trash removal bother any of you even if you think Tony is being a bully? I'd like to know since brick and mortar places are brow beat by the city with the silly letter grades posted in the windows. If they leave a container open in their clean kitchen or are a few degrees off in food storage, they lose points but Sammy can store meat in a parking lot? Come on.

If a place is consistently A-rated and-or has had no major violations, fine -- I cross fingers and assume it's reliable.

But, for example: Some places near the "Sammy corner" have shot up/down erratically month to month, bouncing around C/A/C and-or scoring 35-40+ points or barely clinging to B or having same recurring sanit or mouse/bug problems, right into the present. That kind of record means that I have no idea what's really up on a given day -- whether all's OK or whether last month's critters and other violations are back.

Taking-chances-wise, I don't see a difference between eating there and patronizing a cart. If the cart has good food, the cart wins (and, really, I'd do without if that area were cartless).

You're really being disingenuous if you worry about up and down grades but aren't even remotely curious about the sanitary habits of the cart. You're usually more intellectually honest than this.

[cherryblossom]

How close are these places to Sammy's corner? Could they possibly be effected by the trash left there?

[lonestar]

[/]
Re: Bay Ridge Store Owners/ Food Cart
by cherryblossom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:10 pm

How close are these places to Sammy's corner? Could they possibly be effected by the trash left there?

Why would that matter, there are residents who are affected by their trash being left there.

[Observateur]

The squeaky wheel gets the oil,

there are real issues here not just the fact that you think the brick and mortars are bullies, give me a break already will, the bully thing is just distraction from the real issues, nothing more

Based on the extreme and unprofessional reactions: I think that for some protesters the real issues either are other than those given or include other wrinkles. And as an adult, I know that winning sometimes means just "winning" in quotes.

[cherryblossom]

[/]
Re: Bay Ridge Store Owners/ Food Cart
by cherryblossom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:10 pm

How close are these places to Sammy's corner? Could they possibly be effected by the trash left there?

Why would that matter, there are residents who are affected by their trash being left there.

I asked a question, there's no need to get defensive. If the grades of these places are going up and down based on vermin being attracted to the area from an excessive amount of food garbage, there would be an even bigger legitimate complaint that the brick and mortar business around there would have. Not everyone here is attacking you, lonestar.

[Observateur]

Honestly though, doesn't the unrefrigerated meat, God knows where they defecate and us paying for their trash removal bother any of you even if you think Tony is being a bully? I'd like to know since brick and mortar places are brow beat by the city with the silly letter grades posted in the windows. If they leave a container open in their clean kitchen or are a few degrees off in food storage, they lose points but Sammy can store meat in a parking lot? Come on.

If a place is consistently A-rated and-or has had no major violations, fine -- I cross fingers and assume it's reliable.

But, for example: Some places near the "Sammy corner" have shot up/down erratically month to month, bouncing around C/A/C and-or scoring 35-40+ points or barely clinging to B or having same recurring sanit or mouse/bug problems, right into the present. That kind of record means that I have no idea what's really up on a given day -- whether all's OK or whether last month's critters and other violations are back.

Taking-chances-wise, I don't see a difference between eating there and patronizing a cart. If the cart has good food, the cart wins (and, really, I'd do without if that area were cartless).

You're really being disingenuous if you worry about up and down grades but aren't even remotely curious about the sanitary habits of the cart. You're usually more intellectually honest than this.

I'm neither worried nor being disingenuous. I'm saying that it's peculiar to cite carts as health hazards when some nearby B&Ms can't keep their food temps, storage, roaches/mice, hygiene et al consistently under control or consistently avoid major violations and-or crummy ratings, though inspection is inevitable. That levels the "risk."

[Observateur]

[/]
Re: Bay Ridge Store Owners/ Food Cart
by cherryblossom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:10 pm

How close are these places to Sammy's corner? Could they possibly be effected by the trash left there?

Why would that matter, there are residents who are affected by their trash being left there.

I asked a question, there's no need to get defensive. If the grades of these places are going up and down based on vermin being attracted to the area from an excessive amount of food garbage, there would be an even bigger legitimate complaint that the brick and mortar business around there would have. Not everyone here is attacking you, lonestar.

It's mice (not sewer rats) in some, but not all. If it were due to one external factor all should have it, or all in one area, or all uncontrollably, which isn't the case. The non- or erratic As also have had the usual violations -- insects and harborage, temp/refrig/surface issues, worker hygiene -- so it's pretty eclectic.

[cherryblossom]

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks.

[86er]

I agree Lonestar, let's talk about the issues:

- The food carts have not done anything illegal yet. Lonestar can ask all the "profound questions", like where does he wash his hands? Where does he use the bathroom? All of these accusations are just that: unfounded accusations. I heard that Lonestar hates babies and kills puppy dogs. Heresay and rumors don't make them true. Until someone with authority proves otherwise, the food carts are legal and are operating legally.

- I understand that there is a disparity in the rents paid by brick and mortar shops. Once again though, your argument is with the city that allows them to operate. NOT the food carts

- I couldn't care less about Lonestar's involvement in the community. This is America and this is capitalism. If Sammy takes his money and supports his family with it, that's good enough for me.

- You still haven't responded to my earlier query about the difference between Sammy's cart, and the coffee carts that you admittedly frequent in Manhattan, when there are brick and mortar spots selling coffee within a few minutes walk. This clearly is a "not in my backyard" issue.

- This vigilanteism and playing judge and jury is absurd. Until someone with real authority shuts down the carts, Lonestar should just sit down, shut up and stop BULLYING (yes, that word again) an honest man trying to do an honest day's work.

Complain to the city and create change through legal avenues, rather than the petty, childish and whiny ways that you and our cronies have chosen.

This is America.

[Capt_Colonial]

im late to this debate....great post and summary 86er

[rickshawsue]

Tsunami Pastrami Salami.....

[Observateur]

My wife said she was really impressed this p.m. by the big guys "patrolling" the 86th/5th corner to keep the carts away (as in: very negatively impressed). Some of our totally-non-hipster/yuppie neighbors were equally impressed.
Way to go, protesters.

[someguy]

I agree Lonestar, let's talk about the issues:

- The food carts have not done anything illegal yet. Lonestar can ask all the "profound questions", like where does he wash his hands? Where does he use the bathroom? All of these accusations are just that: unfounded accusations. I heard that Lonestar hates babies and kills puppy dogs. Heresay and rumors don't make them true. Until someone with authority proves otherwise, the food carts are legal and are operating legally.

- I understand that there is a disparity in the rents paid by brick and mortar shops. Once again though, your argument is with the city that allows them to operate. NOT the food carts

- I couldn't care less about Lonestar's involvement in the community. This is America and this is capitalism. If Sammy takes his money and supports his family with it, that's good enough for me.

- You still haven't responded to my earlier query about the difference between Sammy's cart, and the coffee carts that you admittedly frequent in Manhattan, when there are brick and mortar spots selling coffee within a few minutes walk. This clearly is a "not in my backyard" issue.

- This vigilanteism and playing judge and jury is absurd. Until someone with real authority shuts down the carts, Lonestar should just sit down, shut up and stop BULLYING (yes, that word again) an honest man trying to do an honest day's work.

Complain to the city and create change through legal avenues, rather than the petty, childish and whiny ways that you and our cronies have chosen.

This is America.

^ ^ Well said, Sir.

I also wanna play the "Race Card" on this and say do some Bay Ridge people not like the Halal cart because it is Middle Eastern?

Let's be honest I would rather pay 5 bucks for something ready in 45 seconds than eat the garbage in a Fast food joint or sit and wait 20 min for an order at a regular restaurant.

[Tommy Holiday]

I'm not much for the back and forth bickering but why don't we all start supporting our independent businesses around this and every other neighborhood in Brooklyn. Fuck spending your money in Starbucks,Mc Donalds,Subway and Dunkin donuts. How many Rite aids and Duane Reades do we need around here? More people need to take an active interest in their community.I met a cashier at Staples this week and we got into a conversation so she informs me she lives on 92nd street so I asked her if she has ever visited Artisan food valley she said she never heard of it. I said do you know where Starbucks is she knew Exactly where it was So I told her Artisan is right next door.Perfect example !!!

[Observateur]

Fuck spending your money in Starbucks,Mc Donalds,Subway and Dunkin donuts.

"'They’re kind of taking away from all the local businesses — Burger King, McDonald’s, the pizzeria, the Pork Store, everyone,' Tony Gentile, owner of the Lone Star Bar, told CBS 2′s John Schriffen."

[Tommy Holiday]

SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Observateur]

SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's not really the issue here.
All of the business owners quoted in these stories (both brick & mortar and cart owners) are "independents." The Business Improvement District -- to which the brick/mortar guys belong -- certainly values having shopper-magnet chains. And the cart-protest leader (T. Gentile) spoke in support of BK and McD's.

[VirginiaDave]

SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's not really the issue here.
All of the business owners quoted in these stories (both brick & mortar and cart owners) are "independents." The Business Improvement District -- to which the brick/mortar guys belong -- certainly values having shopper-magnet chains. And the cart-protest leader (T. Gentile) spoke in support of BK and McD's.

Hey at least they have refrigeration and bathrooms.

[naked rev. trish]

Artisan food valley she said she never heard of it. I said do you know where Starbucks is she knew Exactly where it was So I told her Artisan is right next door.Perfect example !!!

probably one of the most low-profiled stores in the nabe and imo one you can walk by and never notice unless you trip into it.

I also wanna play the "Race Card" on this and say do some Bay Ridge people not like the Halal cart because it is Middle Eastern?

Totally. Haven't you noticed how you can go for blocks and blocks and not hit upon a Middle Eastern restaurant or store?

[86er]

Totally. Haven't you noticed how you can go for blocks and blocks and not hit upon a Middle Eastern restaurant or store?

Agreed. Also, I can't stand how whenever I need a pizza place there's never one to be found. Or jeez, anyone know of a crappy, frat-house smelling spot where someone could grab a beer? What we really need in this community are some more churches with dwindling congregations!

[VirginiaDave]

And a few 99 cent stores.

[naked rev. trish]

No nail salons for you!

NEXT!

[Kitchop]

So wait!, am I now supposed to be buying that the little independent Halal food cart hurts local independent brick and mortar businesses more than McDonald's or Burger King or Five Guys hurts independent businesses? The chains seek the same customers and drive rents up. Speaking of Five Guys (which I admit I like), what is their position on the food carts? Also, does anyone know whether any of the local business are kind enough to let Sammy use their bathroom?

[Tommy Holiday]

All I was saying was support your mom and pop businesses in the neighborhood. Skinflints has one of, if not the best hamburgers around here so why go to a chain place?? The fact that a Subway franchise even exists in BROOKLYN, the land of some of the greatest delicatessens especially A&S pork store!!!!!is beyond me. Why would anyone patronize a chain sandwich spot with pre sliced garbage cold cuts?? That goes for every facet of business If we don't support the people in OUR neighborhood it will turn into another strip mall type of shopping plaza we all (or most of us) hate.